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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey, bit of a silly question...

What are 'Cams'?

What do they do?

Are they worth the cost?

My goal is going to be 190bhp but mainly focusing on torque, would I need cams? Would it be a cost effective upgrade to get to 190bhp? How much bhp would they add on their own with a map? How much to buy and fit?

Thanks


Ashley
 

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Cams control the valves on the engine. The Valves open for a set duration and a certain amount of lift to control the air into and out of the engine. Most cams are designed to create a good power band at low to medium RPM's, lets say 2000-4500. The problem is once you rev past that point, the airflow is choked and the engine cant suck enough in. Hence torque and bhp drops off on most cars after around 5000rpm.

With uprated cams, the valves are open longer (duration) or open higher (higher lift) you will have more power at high RPMs. Most cams for the Fiesta ST "kick in" at 5000 through to 7000, which means you lose out on power before that point, why? because when a valve opens too much at low RPM's the airflow slows down and the fuel mixing isnt as great because of this. You cant have the best of both worlds with our engines. If our engines had Vtech or VVT you could, as these systems change the lift and/or duration of the valves at a set point.

This is why people need to think before getting big bore exhausts, and 60mm throttle bodies. Bigger isn't always better.

You say you want 190bhp but want to focus on torque, im not sure you can. For instance a Mountune 165 (no cams) has more torque than a Mountune 185 (165+cams) for most of the rev range... And part of me (a very small part i might add) does miss the low end torque i've lost since getting 185... However the power between 5000-7000 more than makes up for it...
 

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to throw a spanner into the works, hasnt the mountune 200 got more torque than 165? (probably rumours i know!)

but if they have, how have they done it?
 

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to throw a spanner into the works, hasnt the mountune 200 got more torque than 165? (probably rumours i know!)

but if they have, how have they done it?
I think it has the same torque, not more. Cant remember. The Inlet is designed for the 2litre unit, it will have correct runner lengths to match the 185s airflow "needs". Cosworth inlet is designed for a 2.3 or blown applications and is too big for a NA 2litre ST, again this is where bigger isnt better, the larger trumpets/too short runner lengths do not feed the airflow properly at low RPM's.

So basically what everyone needs is a Mountune inlet with 185 or any Camed up fiesta.
 

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to throw a spanner into the works, hasnt the mountune 200 got more torque than 165? (probably rumours i know!)

but if they have, how have they done it?
yes it now has on the latest mapping, around 210nm, bit less smooth than 165 but kicks up higher on several occasions across the revs and higher toward the end. Probably managed some better mapping matching it with the new inlet.
 

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Nice school lesson Overlag


In short,If you want to achieve 185+BHP you WILL need Cam's.

There's load's to choose from so It's just down to what you want,Can afford,Availabilty Etc.....When ordering you will have to Know/Find out what the Lift & Duration of them are,Because there's only certain one's you can fit without needing other uprated part's or more work
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Awesome, they sound like a lot of work though!

What order do you guys suggest I get things done then? Cams last?

Induction Kit
Throttle Body
Manifold/Flexi
Cat back Milltek
Intake
Cams
Remap

Is that a good order?
What would I run off that?
 

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Awesome, they sound like a lot of work though!

What order do you guys suggest I get things done then? Cams last?

Induction Kit
Throttle Body
Manifold/Flexi
Cat back Milltek
Intake
Cams
Remap

Is that a good order?
What would I run off that?
All depends wot ur budget is. Best place to start with most cars is exhaust and induction, then go onto cams, inlet, SC etc. Then when you have finished get a custom map to suit the mods you have gone for

Matt
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well they will be done individually with time between each, so its probably going to be induction - throttle body (as they are the cheapest) then flexi pipe and cat back


Then later on the cams/inlet etc
 

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Still a good start mate, iv got a mountune CAIS on mine at moment and got a full milltek to go on soon!! I cant wait.

Also the 60mm TB arent that cheap now to buy, unless u can get one 2nd hand. Best bet is to go for the K&N or the Mountune CAIS first as then you get to hear the induction roar, it sounds quality

Matt
 

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Personally I would do Exhaust first,Induction Kit,Throttle Body,And then Cam's,Inlet & Remap.

If you can (Fund's allowing) It would be best If you can get the Cam's,Inlet & Remap all done In one hit,As once you fit the Cam's &
Inlet you wont actually have much gain In performance until It's remapped as all the Fuel/Air mixture Etc will be all out of tolerance.
 

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Hey, bit of a silly question...

What are 'Cams'?

What do they do?
Awww bless . .. . you gotta ask/learn sometime tho well done for not sitting in the corner blubbering


i would say if you are doing it step by step when funds allow, then it would be worth getting a generic remap after the induction and exhaust is sorted as these mods alone will make the car run rich, and some thing like a blue fin stage 2 will get the best of what you have fitted so far, when you do cams and say and inlet manifold then a custom map to suit would make all this really work well together.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Cheers guys.

What do you think it will run after that lot?

Will that add much torque?


With the remap thing (Dreamscience or alike) can I use it to change maps when I want?
 

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Cheers guys.

What do you think it will run after that lot?

Will that add much torque?
' />

With the remap thing (Dreamscience or alike) can I use it to change maps when I want?
All depends mate, some people get about 165-175 with air filter and full exhaust, some get 165 with just air filter. Check out steves bhp leaderboard on the general power and performance section.

It will add torque again check the bhp leaderboard to see wot people are getting

If you use the DS u can switch maps as much as u want, if you go bluefin or another generic map i think you just have access to one map. Someone correct me if im talkin rubbish lol
 

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you get stage one with blue fin install it then download stage 2 for free, dreamscience comes with 4 maps i reckon, but not sure any have a tune for use with cams as a standard map on the unit. Torque will increase and normally move up the rev range with mods like these, but the right type of exhaust manifold makes the world of difference.
 

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Max torque would probably be a full 4-2-1 system, K&N and then a custom map. Would see you around 165bhp and a lot of torque AFAIK.
 

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Cams control the valves on the engine. The Valves open for a set duration and a certain amount of lift to control the air into and out of the engine. Most cams are designed to create a good power band at low to medium RPM's, lets say 2000-4500. The problem is once you rev past that point, the airflow is choked and the engine cant suck enough in. Hence torque and bhp drops off on most cars after around 5000rpm.

With uprated cams, the valves are open longer (duration) or open higher (higher lift) you will have more power at high RPMs. Most cams for the Fiesta ST "kick in" at 5000 through to 7000, which means you lose out on power before that point, why? because when a valve opens too much at low RPM's the airflow slows down and the fuel mixing isnt as great because of this. You cant have the best of both worlds with our engines. If our engines had Vtech or VVT you could, as these systems change the lift and/or duration of the valves at a set point.

This is why people need to think before getting big bore exhausts, and 60mm throttle bodies. Bigger isn't always better.

You say you want 190bhp but want to focus on torque, im not sure you can. For instance a Mountune 165 (no cams) has more torque than a Mountune 185 (165+cams) for most of the rev range... And part of me (a very small part i might add) does miss the low end torque i've lost since getting 185... However the power between 5000-7000 more than makes up for it...
Excellent write up. Just want to add that V - tech or VVT is Variable Valve Timing - (if he does not know what cams are chances of knowing this is slim)
So the valves allow so much air into the engine before a certain rev limit for ecomomy - then allow more air into the engine for performance after that limit is reached.

hence..


and other such search google for "vtech just kicked in yo"
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So 4-2-1 will be better than 4-1? Who can guess my next thread title?


When I pick the car up I'll join up so I can see the technical thread
 

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This thread has cleared up alot of questions i had in mind.

Ive got alot of ideas and no
yet??


Wont be long...watch this space!!

Dan
 
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