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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys,

As per title, i currently own a Z4 E85 3.0 SI, the car is starting to cost me a lot with regards to repairs now that it is 14 years old and on 120k. Due to circumstances changing I am looking to sell and get somthing new. My budget is 9-10k, ideally on the lower side of this.

My requirements for the new car are as follows;

Cheaper to run than the Z4 (fuel, insurance and tax)
Cheaper general maintenance costs than the Z4
Cheaper repair costs than the Z4
Something with similar power to the Z4
Exciting and fun to drive
No older than 10 years
60,000 miles or less.
Great daily driver


I've been looking at everything from TTS, RS250/265, 125D's A5 3.0TDI etc but everything falls outside of my budget or doesn't tick all the boxes. I keep coming back to the Fiesta ST Mk7 and I am wanting one the more and more I look at them. It literally ticks all the boxes from what I have researched, cheaper, exciting and fun to drive, great daily driver, requirements fall within my budget, and as much as I like the Z4, i quite fancy a hot hatch again. I never really gelled with the Z4 as much as I thought I would.

Now the only thing the Fiesta falls down on is power. 180bhp vs 265bhp. 0-60 in 6.9 seconds compared to the Z4 at 5.7.

My question is, will the lack of power compared to the Z4 be a big difference and will i be disappointed? Am I making a big downgrade? I know the Fiesta is a rocket on B roads but how do they fair in a straight line and for overtaking, as most of my driving is done on straight roads rather than country unfortunately.

Also, if I did get the Fiesta, then i would probably end up getting a stage one or two at some point - Would either of these bring me up to Z4 territory (i.e 0-60, straight line speed, top speed)?

I know they are two very different cars , one being a 6 pot N/A RWD vs a smaller turbo FWD hatch, but it would be great if anyone has driven both and could give some insight as to how they compare.

Thanks
 

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2014 Mk7 ST-3
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50 Posts
They're not really a straight line power house, they're built more for twisty roads.
No issue overtaking anything so far though, there's poke there when it's needed. It's also a lighter car than the Z4.
Stage 2 I think is around the 240 ish mark so it'd be quick enough, you're not going to increase the top speed unless you start changing gearing.

Also, they're basically 200bhp in standard form, the 180 thing is a bit of a gimmick.
 

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Stage 2 2015 ST-3 here. 245 bhp. Pulls like a train, loads of fun to drive, lowered and braced at the rear, all the engine mounts swapped out for stiffened mounts. It’s a B road destroyer. You’d be hard pushed to find a car that could handle like the FiST on B roads. Top end, nothing changes unless like Tazzz says, you fiddle with gearing and internals. Decent tyres on and it’s like glue in the road. I have zero complaints. Unless you go massive power cars. you’ll not get the fun factor the fezzer offers from many other places in my opinion.
to get the stage 3 from 2 doesn’t take that much more hardware to be honest then you’d be looking at 285-330 bhp. In a tin can! You won’t regret it mate.
 

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Fiesta ST200 mk7 Stage 3+ Build
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I swapped from a Fiesta ST, butcame back to another after a few years of messing with other cars... I've recently come from a stage 1 M140i (407bhp) & a Focus RS mk3 Stage 2 (400bhp) and I still love the Fiesta as the great all round car which ticks all the boxes I need from a car.

Excellent on the B roads as mentioned above, most features you want in a car (dependant on trim level I guess) and it even returns some decent mpg on a day to day basis (mid 30's) or motorway miles (40s).

I'm awful for modifications and recently just went to stage 3 330-340 BHP - I can say normal driving you wouldn't even know, but when you go for power, its ridiculous :ROFLMAO: - So there's always room for improvement on the power front if you fancy spending on the car... coming from Stage 2 its a big difference although stage 2 had enough power to keep me happy.

Personally as I said, it's a great daily but has potential to be lots of fun with a couple of tweaks here and there.
 

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My brother has a Z4 but the 3.0 se rather than si so down a little on bhp compared to yours. However I have a few choice upgrades and Collins CP2 tune and we both agree that straight line performance from both cars is spookily similar .

However the ST is far more nimble and less likely to find a bush , we both agree that the Z4 would be much more of a handful on anything technical . Both cars are great to drive however and each bring something a little different to the table. The 3.0 engine in the Z4 is a 6 cylinder peach though and you will miss the soundtrack from it .
 

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Comments about needing to change the gearing to increase top speed are wrong, it's power you need for that (gearing is not the limiting factor). But why would you worry about that?

0-60 times will favour the rwd z4, rolling performance less so.

Stage 2 is all you need really for a quick road car, more makes it even better (with supporting mods).

"Just" a standard one will have you smiling way more than you do in your z4 I'd bet.
 

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In my experience German cars are just dull. Sometimes quick and good to be in but mostly dull. Similar to K3FUS says but I have owned my 2013 MK7 ST (Stage 2) from new (so coming up to 8 years) by far the longest I have ever owned car. It odes 4 track days a year and 45 mpg at other times. I'm not sure that I will ever sell it.
 

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Comments about needing to change the gearing to increase top speed are wrong, it's power you need for that (gearing is not the limiting factor).

Not exactly true.

Get a MK7 ST180 with 300bhp with rev limit at 7300rpm, get another one with 340bhp but limiter is at 6000rpm, which one will have higher maximum top speed?

Another scenario, get a stock ST180 which has a 3.8:1 final drive ratio, then get a stock ST200 with it's higher 4.3:1 final drive, the ST180 with it's lower ratio final drive will have a higher top end maximum speed.
 

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I think he's referring to the whole "air gets like treacle" scenario, where bhp is the only limiting factor to overcome the air resistance.

That aside, an ST with a simple remap and an intake and/or exhaust will be more than on a par with the Z4 on the roads.

People will deny this, but they've never owned or driven a Fiesta ST. Anyone who has will agree.

It's the torque from the boost which makes them quite quick on the roads. Drag racing is a whole different ball game. End of the day it's a FWD hatch drive with reasonably skinny tyres.
 

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I think he's referring to the whole "air gets like treacle" scenario, where bhp is the only limiting factor to overcome the air resistance.
I get what you're saying Alec but he did quote "top speed" which is a calculation of engine max revs, transmission ratios and tyre sizes and not power, anyway enough of that.

@ColdWater The ST180 is a cracking little fun car which is totally transformed with a remap and a few other bolt-on bits, I don't think you'd be disappointed.
 

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My point (and if I'm wrong, no worries) was that a stock ST doesn't hit it's limiter in 6th...to do so would require more power would it not?

Edit: or to put it another way - could you increase the top speed of a standard ST by gearing changes alone? I don't think you could, whereas by increasing power alone you could.
 

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My point (and if I'm wrong, no worries) was that a stock ST doesn't hit it's limiter in 6th...to do so would require more power would it not?

Edit: or to put it another way - could you increase the top speed of a standard ST by gearing changes alone? I don't think you could, whereas by increasing power alone you could.
My point (and if I'm wrong, no worries) was that a stock ST doesn't hit it's limiter in 6th.
Yes it would on the right stretch of tarmac.

could you increase the top speed of a standard ST by gearing changes alone?
Yes you could.

More power would get you to top speed in a shorter amount of time and distance but like I state above a slightly lower powered car with lower gearing would have a higher top speed than the same car with slightly more power and higher gearing.

Anyway, I'll let the thread carry on.
 

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I get what you're saying Alec but he did quote "top speed" which is a calculation of engine max revs, transmission ratios and tyre sizes and not power, anyway enough of that.
You are not mentioning the other, and important factor which is aerodynamics
 

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You are not mentioning the other, and important factor which is aerodynamics
I've not mentioned many things but your original statement saying others were wrong was in fact wrong lol.

re. aerodynamics, if a car can reach it's limiter in top gear less then aero wouldn't alter it's max top speed, less aero/drag would get car to max speed quicker but max top speed would be the same.
 

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^^ well yes, but the ST doesn't hit it's limiter in top (and it won't until 180ish).

We'll have to agree to disagree ✓

Back to the thread I think we can agree the OP will be more than happy with the change from Z4 to ST given the list of requirements
 

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The theoretical top speed is something like 170mph, but it is just that... Theoretical.

It doesn't factor in any drag, rolling resistance or slip.

Brushing all that under the carpet...

Get the ST, you will enjoy it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks all for your comments. I generally do between 20-30 miles per day, my commute consists of carriageways and town driving I'd say 50/50 mix, with traffic on the way home. So with regards to my comment about it being a good daily driver, I am just wanting somthing that is a little more comfortable than the Z4 and perhaps "easier" to drive around town, in traffic and in urban areas when I am not hooning it on the B roads (not that the Z4 is hard to drive, it just requires a bit more effort especially with the heavier steering and long front if that makes sense) The Z4 ride is very very harsh on bumpy roads too.

I can't think of any other cars apart from the ST (with a stage 2) that tick all the boxes and going by the comments on here seem to confirm this so it looks like I'll be test driving a few soon!
 
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