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At the end of the day whatever they look like is down to personal preference.

When the mk7 first came out I thought the front bumper looked like a salmon mouth, I still ended up with one in the end, albeit only for a year. I got it as my brother had a mk6 ST, and I was in the market for a hot hatch, and being honest.. it grew on me.

I didn’t like the mk8 when it first came out, due to the c-maxiness of it, but again it grew on me, the only thing stopping me from getting a mk8 was the fact I’d have to have gone used, monthly prices were the same if not higher compared to brand new ones, plus I’d have to factor in possible maintenance purely based on the fact it’s second hand.

What one person likes doesn’t meant someone else has to based on the fact both cars are an ST.

I actually looked at trying to get myself into an i20n as well, but Hyundai do their order books different… so it would’ve been a completely fresh order and at the time, probably waiting another 6 months on top of the wait for my ST, which I couldn’t justify or wait any longer.
Imo just need to stop acting like kids and bashing others when they don’t like something you do.. 🙃
 

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so 100 kilos makes all the difference? with 180bhp and what 240 torque? against 1200 kilos and 200BHP and 320 nm of torque? Mk7 has 218 nm per tonne, and the MK8.5 has 266nm per tonne... ( plus they dont look like an old car) ha ha ha ha .
The Mk7 has output of 197bhp, the whole 180 was a gimmick for insurance banding.

Helps if you actually know the facts.
 

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The Mk7 has output of 197bhp, the whole 180 was a gimmick for insurance banding.

Helps if you actually know the facts.
197 on overboost when it feels like it, fact is 180 or 200 bhp is only occuring at 6000 or so revs, its the TORQUE that gets you there. If you have 200bhp at 6500 and you are accelerating from 2500rpm flat, you are not using that 200bhp until you are just about to change up a gear, its the midrange torque that accelerates you, that push in the back. so 240nm isnt quite 320nm is it? Power figures for pub chat, torque to win acceleration .. know your physics.
 

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or for reference, the MP215 mk7 ST that was a factory option…
View attachment 590406
"factory option" really? so it came out of the factory with the Mountune 215 package did it? You ordered it on the new car order form at your dealers and it was built into the car in the factory eh? Amazing, I always thought it was a 'dealer fitted' pack installed in the Uk to a std ST !!

It’s the Mountune MP215 engine upgrade. For just £599 you get a headline Ford-approved power output of 215PS. The changes consist of an ECU remap accompanied by a new high-flow airbox, K&N filter and air hose to let the engine breath more freely. Torque is up too, from a useful 290Nm to a very handy 320Nm.
Ford Fiesta ST3 Mountune MP215

Ford Fiesta ST3 Mountune MP215
Now it’s worth pointing out that the headline power figure is based on the Fiesta’s time-limited overboost, whereas the standard model is always quoted as having 182PS, the output without the overboost. So according to Mountune’s own figures the MP215 upgrade adds roughly 15PS (not the 33PS that some publications have been claiming).
 

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I'm well aware of power application and difference between torque and power. Both cars peak power is high in the revs, so that voids the application point. The Mk7 is 290Nm, not 240, so again voids that argument you're trying to make.

It's the area under the curves on the graphs which matter, and both, in standard form, are very similar...with the Mk8 3 pot engine coming out slightly ahead on the torque front.

More torque doesn't automatically mean faster, otherwise we'd all be driving diesel vans. Horsepower is the rate at which that turning force can be applied, which is why a higher BHP petrol car normally beats a higher torque output diesel car.

Peak power figures are pub talk, that's about all we can agree on here.
 

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"factory option" really? so it came out of the factory with the Mountune 215 package did it? You ordered it on the new car order form at your dealers and it was built into the car in the factory eh? Amazing, I always thought it was a 'dealer fitted' pack installed in the Uk to a std ST !!

It’s the Mountune MP215 engine upgrade. For just £599 you get a headline Ford-approved power output of 215PS. The changes consist of an ECU remap accompanied by a new high-flow airbox, K&N filter and air hose to let the engine breath more freely. Torque is up too, from a useful 290Nm to a very handy 320Nm.
Ford Fiesta ST3 Mountune MP215

Ford Fiesta ST3 Mountune MP215
Now it’s worth pointing out that the headline power figure is based on the Fiesta’s time-limited overboost, whereas the standard model is always quoted as having 182PS, the output without the overboost. So according to Mountune’s own figures the MP215 upgrade adds roughly 15PS (not the 33PS that some publications have been claiming).
You do realise the overboost feature lasts for 20 seconds of WOT application and resets when you reapply the throttle.

Where in the real world are you ever on WOT for 20 seconds?

Like I said, a gimmick.

You can admit defeat now or keep digging...
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Some of that reminds me of the comments you can find on YouTube here and there under all kinds of automobile and motorsport videos saying that "real car guys" know to care more about torque because torque is more important. It's like culture and counterculture. Even though I am not an engineer I don't find the concept of HP being the rate at which the NMs can be applied particularly challenging. Meaning both are just as important. Funny thing is... That was the whole reason I started the topic. I was curious to find out what do people think the extra 30 could do in the areas where other parts of the equation are probably more meaningful, be it ratios, displacement, number of cylinders, weight, grip limitations. How the car would make use of those with all the other parameters remaining as they were before.

@ydnA 😆
 

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The extra torque in the 8.5 will make a difference, no doubt about it. How much of a difference is much harder to quantify. Completely depends on the driving style, as that torque is only in a particular part of the power bands.

The main factors, when it comes to cars so close on paper, is driver competence and tyres. That's the main factor behind the Mk8s times over the Mk7. Mk7 was on Pirelli P Zero Neros, which are slated on here. Whereas the Mk8 was on Pilot Super Sports, a much grippier tyre.

I really wouldn't worry about comparing the minutia between the ST and i20N or even Mk7 or Mk8, they're all so evenly matched, they're on a par.
 
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