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Premium Member
2005, MK6 ST150 (pre face lift )
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166 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HI All,

I got a Ramair induction kit a few weeks ago to replace the standard "restrictive" airbox and it works well ( when I'm moving )
But off the lights the car bogs down slightly and I can only think this is because even with the "cold air feed" when you are stationary you aint getting any "cold air" or any other air ( just engine bay temp air)

So, I thought
Does anyone make a sealed airbox system ( like most superbikes) and I can't find any.

So, I thought
Could I fit a fan ( or a number of fans ) like this :

s-l64.jpg


Sorry, crap picture ( but its just a pc cooling fan )
Into the "cold air feed ducting tube" to blow air ( which would only be ambiant temp @ the air filter.

And then I thought.
If I get a small enclosure, could I mount the air filter inside it and then blow ambiant air at it ?

And then I thought.
If I used a canbus front parking sensor controller (which gives me a live feed at less than 6mph ) I wouldn't destroy the pc cooling fans.

So theres my thinking. - Is it worth trying ? Its probably all been done long long ago

Any thoughts ?

THx
 

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Super Moderator
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23,536 Posts
Not worth your while.

All it will do is force in the ambient air which will be the same temp.

It's a problem not much can be done about other than mount your air filter poking out the bonnet.

It's only really once you're moving and the engine is sucking in a faster flow of air the temps will drop.
 

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Premium Member
2005, MK6 ST150 (pre face lift )
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166 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Not worth your while.

All it will do is force in the ambient air which will be the same temp.

It's a problem not much can be done about other than mount your air filter poking out the bonnet.

It's only really once you're moving and the engine is sucking in a faster flow of air the temps will drop.
Hi AMc
but this is my logic. ambient air will be a lower temperature than air inside the engine bay Y/N ?
I'm learning loads on this site
thx. :)
 

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2,259 Posts
I don't have a Mk6, but thought the idea was interesting.

I think the problem is that any fans of those sizes aren't going to have enough static pressure to draw in cold air over any distance.
You'd really be making a minor turbulence, but no actual airflow.

If you look at server rack cooling, they often have to run tens of fans at "chop your fingers off" speeds to even get air across a sealed rack case.
 

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Premium Member
2005, MK6 ST150 (pre face lift )
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166 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I don't have a Mk6, but thought the idea was interesting.

I think the problem is that any fans of those sizes aren't going to have enough static pressure to draw in cold air over any distance.
You'd really be making a minor turbulence, but no actual airflow.

If you look at server rack cooling, they often have to run tens of fans at "chop your fingers off" speeds to even get air across a sealed rack case.
Hi Alex
Thx for reply:
Thats wot I wasn't sure about, how much air these fans would move.
Is the principle sound though ?
A car with air (whatever the temp) being blown into a sealed airbox would pick up off a standing start better than one just drawing air in from the engine bay ?
then.
Would the same car suffer ( when moving)
thx
 

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Premium Member
2005 mk6 Fiesta ST
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2,046 Posts
Is the principle sound though ?
A car with air (whatever the temp) being blown into a sealed airbox would pick up off a standing start better than one just drawing air in from the engine bay ?
The issue is the fans can't actually pressurise the air in the way a turbo does so it wont make any real difference.
 

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Premium Member
2005, MK6 ST150 (pre face lift )
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166 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The issue is the fans can't actually pressurise the air in the way a turbo does so it wont make any real difference.
LOL. I wish I'd been born 100 years ago. I might have just invented something. ho hum
 

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81 Posts
With this less dense and hot warm muggy air, even with a K&N typhoon it still might be effected by the heat.

Hence why I kegged my K&N and vented my bonnet (Hood) - To get heat away from the dam filter, thus driving yesterday the only bog down was the AC going full whack! You got to think at what RPM a fan would need to go keep up with how much air is going in, the new 8.0-liter 16-cylinder Bugatti Chiron, takes in 60,000 liters of air per minute. Maybe if there was less pollution in the air the car might run better!>?
 

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186 Posts
Before you try to reinvent the wheel, get some hard figures.
Ive had all types of intakes including home made concoctions on the stock inlet, ff inlet and cossy inlet running NA and supercharged. There's very little difference between them all on paper. No difference in reality.
Heat soak is still there. The bog still exists.
But if you're after power off the line you'd likely be launching in a higher rpm which removes this issue. 20 degrees above ambient temp or 10 degrees above ambient temp... There's no noticoble difference.

(for reference averaging 10 degrees above ambient temp is spot on for a decent NA setup)

I've also run with no bumper, bonnet and headlamps for a shocking amount of time and still made 10 degrees above ambient temp. Which tells us that the extra 10 degrees is happening after the throttle body.
 

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Premium Member
2005, MK6 ST150 (pre face lift )
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166 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Before you try to reinvent the wheel, get some hard figures.
Ive had all types of intakes including home made concoctions on the stock inlet, ff inlet and cossy inlet running NA and supercharged. There's very little difference between them all on paper. No difference in reality.
Heat soak is still there. The bog still exists.
But if you're after power off the line you'd likely be launching in a higher rpm which removes this issue. 20 degrees above ambient temp or 10 degrees above ambient temp... There's no noticoble difference.

(for reference averaging 10 degrees above ambient temp is spot on for a decent NA setup)

I've also run with no bumper, bonnet and headlamps for a shocking amount of time and still made 10 degrees above ambient temp. Which tells us that the extra 10 degrees is happening after the throttle body.
Hi Marv,
Thx for reply
Like the "reinventing wheel quote" as it is easy to do, very very few things are "new" so if no-ones doing it its probably because it dosn't work.
I've got some 3" tubing ordered so will fix in.
Is there a best way to have it entering the cone ( ie) straight onto the small end or feeding into the main body, or is there no noticable difference ?
Fitted the Miltek manifold and ran yesterday (hot) was impressed, but took to work @ 05::00 this morning and the car flew
Very glad I went for it, espesially after I found a hole in the standard flexi when it was removed. (y)
Thx
 

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Premium Member
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186 Posts
Hi Marv,
Thx for reply
Like the "reinventing wheel quote" as it is easy to do, very very few things are "new" so if no-ones doing it its probably because it dosn't work.
I've got some 3" tubing ordered so will fix in.
Is there a best way to have it entering the cone ( ie) straight onto the small end or feeding into the main body, or is there no noticable difference ?
Fitted the Miltek manifold and ran yesterday (hot) was impressed, but took to work @ 05::00 this morning and the car flew
Very glad I went for it, espesially after I found a hole in the standard flexi when it was removed. (y)
Thx
You'll require 2.75" (70mm) for the st150 throttle body. It won't make a blind bit of difference how you mount it. Just run a cold air feed to it.
Air boxes are all well and good. But unless they're plastic, they'll heatsoak horrifically. You sit in traffic baking a metal can, so when you start moving, that metal can then needs to cool down. At least with an exposed filter or plastic airbox, there is no dense material radiating stored heat in a very close vicinity even when moving.
 

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Premium Member
2005, MK6 ST150 (pre face lift )
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166 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You'll require 2.75" (70mm) for the st150 throttle body. It won't make a blind bit of difference how you mount it. Just run a cold air feed to it.
Air boxes are all well and good. But unless they're plastic, they'll heatsoak horrifically. You sit in traffic baking a metal can, so when you start moving, that metal can then needs to cool down. At least with an exposed filter or plastic airbox, there is no dense material radiating stored heat in a very close vicinity even when moving.
Hi Marv,
THx for reply (y)
Been having a bit of a mare with the induction kit.
I fitted the Ramair one but tbh I don't like the look of it.
Then I got a K&N RU-4780, which although its the same ID as the Ramair is longer, so won't fit.
I've bitten the bullet and ordered the K&N kit specifically for the ST now so hopefully that will be the end of it.
Only small problem I now have is were to locate the cold air feed tube.
Got a 3" tube, but the place I was going to mount the bottom of it ( n/s of rad ) dosn't look big enough.
Is it an option to take it through the inner wing ?
Thx.
 

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Premium Member
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186 Posts
Hi Marv,
THx for reply (y)
Been having a bit of a mare with the induction kit.
I fitted the Ramair one but tbh I don't like the look of it.
Then I got a K&N RU-4780, which although its the same ID as the Ramair is longer, so won't fit.
I've bitten the bullet and ordered the K&N kit specifically for the ST now so hopefully that will be the end of it.
Only small problem I now have is were to locate the cold air feed tube.
Got a 3" tube, but the place I was going to mount the bottom of it ( n/s of rad ) dosn't look big enough.
Is it an option to take it through the inner wing ?
Thx.
I barely fit a 50mm pipe round by the rad.
Thats why it's always best to measure before buying. Or even just ask on here. If you're thinking about doing something, chances are many many people have done it before and learnt a lesson or 2.
 
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