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2005, MK6 ST150 (pre face lift )
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Discussion Starter · #181 ·
Your chain will be good for life. But if you want to change it then it won't be a bad thing.
Most garages bill for 4 hours. But those are places that fit performance cams, day in, day out without removing the engine front plate.
Hi Marv,
THx, he was asking me about locking tools as he normally works on VWs transporters etc, is there anything special required. as his labour rate is so cheep i might buy them if required.
 

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Hi Marv,
THx, he was asking me about locking tools as he normally works on VWs transporters etc, is there anything special required. as his labour rate is so cheep i might buy them if required.
Its not a requirement as such because most people can make their own, but it makes things easier. There is a locking kit you can buy. It's essentially a metal plate and a bolt.
 

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As far as I'm concerned the pre face lift has Weaker springs, it could be a case of changing them but then they had seen not too much wear as with your chain too, mine has done 148k the chain is slightly stretched.

I tried to change my chain when fitting the cams, but getting the pulley off was difficult and need to lock the flywheel via the starter motor, as the impact was not strong enough! Was going for a full timing kit change got a FAI TCK85 one for £49.99 off eBay and a new ford oil pump while there. FYI a full ford chain timing kit is crazy expensive!

Was unable to do it, just fitted the cams, lubed them up and fitted a new rocker gasket and it's great so far.


For the Newman PH2's at a great price, create A ShopBHP account, then add the cams to your basket and click off the site, they should email you with a 5% discount off the list price within 24hrs and they offer quick free P&P.
 

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2005, MK6 ST150 (pre face lift )
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Discussion Starter · #184 ·
Hi All,
Right, I've spent today watching u tube videos of camshaft changes , so I've got some questions.
I'm ok with cable tieing the chain to the camsprockets to stop them moving
But, once the tension is removed from the cam chain, how do I stop the tensioner extending ?
I've done cam chains on 16v bikes before and the cam tensioners are spring loaded, u make up a little tool to go into the tensioner and lock it until its time to release the tension, is it the same on the ST ?
Is it best to remove the side plate completely to do this job.
Do I need to buy a kit to lock the bottom pully ?
THx
 

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2005, MK6 ST150 (pre face lift )
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Discussion Starter · #185 ·
Hi MArv/ blkyell.

Not sure what happened as I didn't see your replies until I'd done my last post.

Marv, is this the tool I need ?
Azure Office supplies Font Pen Rectangle

if it is, for that money I cant be bothered to make anything.

BLK/YEll,
YEah, my engine only has 56K on it, so I'm not thinking of changing springs/chain
 

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Hi All,
Right, I've spent today watching u tube videos of camshaft changes , so I've got some questions.
I'm ok with cable tieing the chain to the camsprockets to stop them moving
But, once the tension is removed from the cam chain, how do I stop the tensioner extending ?
I've done cam chains on 16v bikes before and the cam tensioners are spring loaded, u make up a little tool to go into the tensioner and lock it until its time to release the tension, is it the same on the ST ?
Is it best to remove the side plate completely to do this job.
Do I need to buy a kit to lock the bottom pully ?
THx
So, to do the cams..


Sealey do a timing kit, but the pin to lock the tensioner was ****e, but the bar works as would a file.

Best docs are the ford workshop guide and Cams install doc

It's pretty straight forward, front cover does not need to be removed by idle pulley does and the belt.
 

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2005, MK6 ST150 (pre face lift )
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Discussion Starter · #188 ·
So, to do the cams..


Sealey do a timing kit, but the pin to lock the tensioner was ****e, but the bar works as would a file.

Best docs are the ford workshop guide and Cams install doc

It's pretty straight forward, front cover does not need to be removed by idle pulley does and the belt.
Hi, yeah I watched that earlier, but he said there were issues with the tesioner extending, how do you get round that ?
 

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Hi, yeah I watched that earlier, but he said there were issues with the tesioner extending, how do you get round that ?
That youtuber helped me do mine, what he did was not release the timing tensioner, hence no slack so when refitting the spockets and i think it came off the bottom maybe and he spent way to long getting it right, hence he didn't have that doc that me and @###simon### just informed you of, and didn't know about the tensioner, you will need new cam sprocket bolts like £5 from ford, some cam lube 30ml, Up to you, but you maybe want fresh oil/filter for the install then after 200/500miles change the oil/filter again. I just left the oil in there, was like 1.5k old, but done 400miles so I might change mine out, as trying to change the chain is looked a bit difficul, unless I pull in favours and get the right tools and have some more time!!

This is why, - Cams is your last mod. Yes, it may run on the standard map - but not as good as it could be.

Hence, Jamsport etc.. cam and remap at the same time, ring up for a deal, they can sort you out and you can get the best out of the car.

We ran the used cams in with it just ticking off on stands, then dropped it, tick over a bit more, for a test run. Now it's colder and the ECU etc.. has learnt it a bit, it's a really lumpy tick over on cold start - finding I have to leave it running a min before slowly moving off, but maybe a map for it will sort it out. It's been done for over 14yrs on here, but most just got a workshop to crack on, or some threads/posts don't go into much detail.
 

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2005, MK6 ST150 (pre face lift )
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Discussion Starter · #191 ·
That youtuber helped me do mine, what he did was not release the timing tensioner, hence no slack so when refitting the spockets and i think it came off the bottom maybe and he spent way to long getting it right, hence he didn't have that doc that me and @###simon### just informed you of, and didn't know about the tensioner, you will need new cam sprocket bolts like £5 from ford, some cam lube 30ml, Up to you, but you maybe want fresh oil/filter for the install then after 200/500miles change the oil/filter again. I just left the oil in there, was like 1.5k old, but done 400miles so I might change mine out, as trying to change the chain is looked a bit difficul, unless I pull in favours and get the right tools and have some more time!!

This is why, - Cams is your last mod. Yes, it may run on the standard map - but not as good as it could be.

Hence, Jamsport etc.. cam and remap at the same time, ring up for a deal, they can sort you out and you can get the best out of the car.

We ran the used cams in with it just ticking off on stands, then dropped it, tick over a bit more, for a test run. Now it's colder and the ECU etc.. has learnt it a bit, it's a really lumpy tick over on cold start - finding I have to leave it running a min before slowly moving off, but maybe a map for it will sort it out. It's been done for over 14yrs on here, but most just got a workshop to crack on, or some threads/posts don't go into much detail.
Hi blk yell,
Thanks mate, I'll have a propper read of all the stuff over the weekend - thx mate
 

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Wait... What? Why don't you remove the small bung on the front plate that sits in front of the tensioner. The one designed to be removed for the pin to slide in when the chain is under tension?
As someone that's done it both ways, with the side plate on and off. Off is way easier. But considerably longer.
In fact, at this point it's quicker for me to remove the whole engine and do it out of the car then refit. Than removing the side plate in situ.

I recommend having your mechanic do it for you, and not worry about the in's and outs.
 

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2005, MK6 ST150 (pre face lift )
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Discussion Starter · #194 ·
Wait... What? Why don't you remove the small bung on the front plate that sits in front of the tensioner. The one designed to be removed for the pin to slide in when the chain is under tension?
As someone that's done it both ways, with the side plate on and off. Off is way easier. But considerably longer.
In fact, at this point it's quicker for me to remove the whole engine and do it out of the car then refit. Than removing the side plate in situ.

I recommend having your mechanic do it for you, and not worry about the in's and outs.
Hi Marv,
Thx for the info, please forgive my ignorance I'm asking just to I supose increase my knowledge
Camera accessory Sports equipment Bicycle part Auto part Font

Is the pin you mentioned the hoop shown above ?
Onbviously the pic shows a new tensioner and I'm assuming that when you take the pin out, if theres no tension on the tensioner, the piston will come fully out.
If the tensioners in the car and undre load, if you refit the pin, will it lock the tensioner in that position ?
All the tesioners on bikes I've dealt with are hydraulic and can be wound back out using a small screwdriver.

thx :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #195 ·
Dreamscience will supply, fit then custom map for just over £900. Apart from the manifold it’s the only thing I’m getting a garage to do.
Hi Simon,
Thats not bad when u think the cams retail @ 460, yeah, I'm thinking it might be the way to go - get someone decent to fit and map at same time.
Everones closed today so some calls to be made Monday. ( like a hotel in Hull, LOL )
Thx
 

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Hi Marv,
Thx for the info, please forgive my ignorance I'm asking just to I supose increase my knowledge
View attachment 584328
Is the pin you mentioned the hoop shown above ?
Onbviously the pic shows a new tensioner and I'm assuming that when you take the pin out, if theres no tension on the tensioner, the piston will come fully out.
If the tensioners in the car and undre load, if you refit the pin, will it lock the tensioner in that position ?
All the tesioners on bikes I've dealt with are hydraulic and can be wound back out using a small screwdriver.

thx :)
The pin in that pic is retaining the tensioner piston yes. The pin you use when preloading the tensioner via the front plate hole is longer. Removing the pin won't fire the piston into the stratosphere. It has a stop on it.
The idea is that you lock the cam gears in tdc (not via the metal plate as it'll just break the cam ends, the plate is just a locator). Then lever the pin to release the ratchet on the tensioner as you apply tension to the crank pulley in reverse, which will tension the left hand side of the chain meaning you can slide the pin in place. Then remove tension from the crank pulley and you can unbolt the cam gears.
The issue you will still face is torqueing the cam gears back up when refitting. As the front plate stops you getting a socket on.
Some people cut a window out of a high tensile steel multitooth socket, and tighten incrementally.
Arguably that wouldn't equate to the correct torque spec when all is said and done.
The only real way to increase your knowledge is to do it, mess up, and learn from your mistakes. Too many people hand out advice that they've received from someone else, which leads people like yourself down the garden path.
 

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2005, MK6 ST150 (pre face lift )
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Discussion Starter · #198 ·
Jamsport also do a deal on cams, fitting and mapping for the same price which might be closer to you.
Hi Mart,
Just called Jamsport, to fit the cams & do custom map their looking at £600 inc vat. I'm guessing it makes sense to supply them new multi v belt at same time.
Not planning on doing anything until the new year, so @ least I've got a ballpark figure to work on, and they say they can turn around same day so I won't have to stay in Northampton ( I'm sure there is nothing wrong with Northampton ) phew.
THx.
 

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Discussion Starter · #199 ·
The pin in that pic is retaining the tensioner piston yes. The pin you use when preloading the tensioner via the front plate hole is longer. Removing the pin won't fire the piston into the stratosphere. It has a stop on it.
The idea is that you lock the cam gears in tdc (not via the metal plate as it'll just break the cam ends, the plate is just a locator). Then lever the pin to release the ratchet on the tensioner as you apply tension to the crank pulley in reverse, which will tension the left hand side of the chain meaning you can slide the pin in place. Then remove tension from the crank pulley and you can unbolt the cam gears.
The issue you will still face is torqueing the cam gears back up when refitting. As the front plate stops you getting a socket on.
Some people cut a window out of a high tensile steel multitooth socket, and tighten incrementally.
Arguably that wouldn't equate to the correct torque spec when all is said and done.
The only real way to increase your knowledge is to do it, mess up, and learn from your mistakes. Too many people hand out advice that they've received from someone else, which leads people like yourself down the garden path.
Hi Marv,
Thx for all this info,
Ok point by point :
Yeah, I realised the tensioner piston wouldn't fly out, but I'm assuming without being under tension it would go out to max travel, and I couldn;t see a way of winding it back in. ( as I said I've done dozens ( no exageration ) of Honda cam chain adjusters as they gum up and dont extend when they should, so you take them out, wind in and out a few times, wash out wish a light oil and refit, job done)
The issue with the front plate explains why on the utube I watched he used a crows foot. I was wondering as it didn't sound a great idea.
Yeah, I fully agree, there are a lot of "experts" around and if I had a second car and a pot of spare money I'd just crack on, thx for all your advice (y)
 

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Hi Marv,
Thx for all this info,
Ok point by point :
Yeah, I realised the tensioner piston wouldn't fly out, but I'm assuming without being under tension it would go out to max travel, and I couldn;t see a way of winding it back in. ( as I said I've done dozens ( no exageration ) of Honda cam chain adjusters as they gum up and dont extend when they should, so you take them out, wind in and out a few times, wash out wish a light oil and refit, job done)
The issue with the front plate explains why on the utube I watched he used a crows foot. I was wondering as it didn't sound a great idea.
Yeah, I fully agree, there are a lot of "experts" around and if I had a second car and a pot of spare money I'd just crack on, thx for all your advice (y)
A crows foot won't leave you with the correct torque spec as the fulcrum is offset. Would it be a problem? Probably not. Would I take the risk, definitly not.

The tensioner would never not be under tension without the locking pin in place.
So it wouldn't ever have the chance to fully extend.
But if someone were to balls up the process and remove the tensioner pin with no chain on, you can just compress it by hand or with a clamp whilst using the pin to relieve the ratchet mechanism (with the front plate removed).
 
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