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is the diff a driver aid? A diff of some sort is needed no matter what, launch control, Traction control, ESC etc aren鈥檛.
 

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If it isn't an aid, then what is it?

It helps the driver out by reducing wheelspin, providing the drive to the wheel(s) with traction.

Sounds like it aids to me.
 

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Yes but then brakes are driver aids too in as much as they allow the driver to modulate his/her speed. This is just a rubbish semantic argument. Why bother?
 

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No. Brake servos are an aid, ABS is an aid, brakes themselves aren't.
 

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Using the phrase "learn to drive" when referring to a driver aid is quite funny.
I agree to disagree as I would think it actually wouldnt it be any more of an aid than 4x4. Its just a different way of transfering power to the ground. Mechanical diff Isnt an aid but an electric brake vectoring is an aid. As long as its mechanical I dont see it as and aid in this case. Even an electricly controlled/locking diff would be an aid to some degree. Because if you think a diff is an aid then so are gearbox synchros. You can drive without them but its way easier to drive with them.
 

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Is a pulley system that makes it possible to lift an engine out by hand with a chain on a highly geared transfer not an aid then, even though it is mechanical?

;)

Point I am trying to make is that with an LSD you don't have to modulate your throttle inputs as much as you would without... So therefore easier to drive as the diff does the work for you finding out the traction.
 

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Is a pulley system that makes it possible to lift an engine out by hand with a chain on a highly geared transfer not an aid then, even though it is mechanical?

;)

Point I am trying to make is that with an LSD you don't have to modulate your throttle inputs as much as you would without... So therefore easier to drive as the diff does the work for you finding out the traction.
But, on the same time it also changes how the power is transferred to the ground in a way that can not be done at all without locking diff. You CAN out brake ABS, you don't NEED ESC as you can just learn how to drive, you don't NEED TC as you can modulate throttle, you don't NEED a pulley system because you can just lift it with yourself if you train first (unlike with a beetle engine that can be lifted out by a strong 10year old). But in a car that has an LSD you can do things that would not be possible at all without one. A bit like 4x4, it allows so much more grip by changing the way the power is transferred to the tires and to the ground without any electronics helping. To be an aid, the thing it allows you to do should be capable to do without it.
 

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I agree to disagree as I would think it actually wouldnt it be any more of an aid than 4x4. Its just a different way of transfering power to the ground. Mechanical diff Isnt an aid but an electric brake vectoring is an aid. As long as its mechanical I dont see it as and aid in this case. Even an electricly controlled/locking diff would be an aid to some degree. Because if you think a diff is an aid then so are gearbox synchros. You can drive without them but its way easier to drive with them.
鈥et鈥檚 all just agree to disagree鈥
 

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鈥et鈥檚 all just agree to disagree鈥
But its actually fun to agree to disagree at times. It makes you think about stuff in a different way. I dont see the diff as an aid, but it made me think of a technical analytic way of proving that Im technically right :D. Disagreeing is a useful tool that cant be just ignored. Plus, he brought it up :D
 

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鈥et鈥檚 all just agree to disagree鈥
I'm sorry I disagree :LOL:

But I do agree with @Pyrres I would be totally happy to remove all electronic and otherwise "aids" but consider a mechanical LSD not to be an aid but a system for the exact same reasons stated in his argument. I would in similar respects not consider winter tyre compounds or even spiked tyres to be an aid but feature.
 

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I'm sorry I disagree :LOL:

But I do agree with @Pyrres I would be totally happy to remove all electronic and otherwise "aids" but consider a mechanical LSD not to be an aid but a system for the exact same reasons stated in his argument. I would in similar respects not consider winter tyre compounds or even spiked tyres to be an aid but feature.
Well winter tires are an aid in a way. A must have aid for sure and its a shame that not that many people use them outside nordic countries. Even the middle European style semi winter studless tires are way way better then just using summer tires in the cold. I'm balancing on should I already put mine on because windows were already frozen few times and I have new rims that will propably look better than the stock ones... But totally new tires and +500hp/700nm to the tires with my lead foot would mean that the tires would be gone in a week :D. But you CAN make it in the winter with summer tires and we did back in the day.
 

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Nope now I disagree with you! They CAN be an aid especially in fairly flay countries where yes you can drive with a bit more care needed - without issue. I have been to some areas in NE Canada though where they are not an aid but essential just to stand a chance on some of the hilly/mountainous roads where to drive with normal tyres would be considered suicide!
 

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Nope now I disagree with you! They CAN be an aid especially in fairly flay countries where yes you can drive with a bit more care needed - without issue. I have been to some areas in NE Canada though where they are not an aid but essential just to stand a chance on some of the hilly/mountainous roads where to drive with normal tyres would be considered suicide!
Ah, must be a culture thing. Canadians and Americans are always putting on snow chains and this that and that when they could just learn to drive. In Finland it wasn't mandatory to have winter tires until I think late 70s early 80s. And we managed nicely. You just have to drive according to the environment. Some of the stuff we do and what we are accustomed to sound a bit dangerous for some :D.
 

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@Pyrres said...

"Canadians and Americans are always putting on snow chains and this that and that when they could just learn to drive"

Hang on, we've come full circle now, didn't all this start with the phrase 'learn to drive' 馃槀

I hope it doesn't stop though. Its been nice to read a discussion with genuine meat on the bone, and refreshing to see disagreements without one or other party flouncing off in a snowflake hissy fit 馃檮
 

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@Pyrres said...

"Canadians and Americans are always putting on snow chains and this that and that when they could just learn to drive"

Hang on, we've come full circle now, didn't all this start with the phrase 'learn to drive' 馃槀

I hope it doesn't stop though. Its been nice to read a discussion with genuine meat on the bone, and refreshing to see disagreements without one or other party flouncing off in a snowflake hissy fit 馃檮
Yes, we have goone full circle :D. But the argument doesn't change. Winter tires do allow you to do some things that summer tires don't if you don't don't know how to drive making them an aid. You might be slower with the summer tires and you might be more creative when driving but it can and is still done a lot in not so rich countries with full on winter.
 
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