Wet oil Pump drive is old ,,Problem "
Since 2012 in the 1 litre Ecoboost/Duratec I3
Volkswagen has it also at newer 2 litre Diesel CR engine. Nothing Ford special, many car Brands are using wet Timing Belt and/or wet oil pump Belt.
Ford 2 l Ecoblue also.

 

So...in summary...the "later" car owners amongst us just need to ensure we get this done at 10yrs or 150k...plenty of time left 🤣🤣🤣

And hopefully Thompasport in the North East are still going then 🤓🤞

 

I have had a Honda GCV160 lawn mower for 15 years and owned a 1litre 140 ps Fiesta for 5 years. All with oil immersed belts. No problems at all.

 

Has anyone ever had a belt changed on the 1 litre Ecoboost with the cam belt in oil?

Mother in law had her 2013 Focus booked in at a local garage but they had to cancel it and said it was a main dealer only job. Mileage is under 50,000 miles but after 10 years she thinks it needs doing.

Is it a main dealer only? No doubt that will be big money. Guessing it's not an easy job for them to say that... unless they just didn't want the hassle of doing it

 

Yep, had my (now my wifes) 2013 1.0 Fiesta Ecoboost wet belt done July this year. Found an ex-Ford mechanic who is now self employed and working from home, who had the right locking tools. Cost £630 which I thought was reasonable compared to what I had been quoted elsewhere.

 

Mileage is under 50,000 miles but after 10 years she thinks it needs doing.

Definitely needs doing at 10 years if keeping the car. This is the subject of much discussion on other Ford forums - we've seen main dealer quotes well into 4 figures.

Several independent specialists now emerging though, depending on where you are. North West Engines in Rochdale have had positive mentions, they and several others come up with a quick internet search.

 

If the car is 10 years old then its not a Mk8... or was I just living in blissful ignorance that they'd gone over to a more reliable/robust chain operation for the 8's? 🤔

 

If the car is 10 years old then its not a Mk8...

It's not even a Fiesta!😀

Joking apart, a lot of confusion (and some very lengthy threads on other forums) on which 1.0 Mk 8s have the revised chain set up which appeared 2020 with the MHEV versions (125/155). It then emerged that the 100ps continued with the wet belt to the end.

To further confuse matters, there was a very short lived 95ps version which it seems did have chain, while some owners have reported that some early 125s were chain but not MHEV.

 

It's not even a Fiesta!😀

Yes, sorry to hijack the thread! I hope it's still relevant discussion.

4 figure service bill is not ideal on a car that's only worth a few grand. Apparently it also uses the oil pump wet belt so that'll need doing at the same time as the came belt


Yes, if going independent it will be very important to get someone that actually knows what they're doing, a specialist would be best. It would have to be local though as non car enthusiasts won't travel to have work done at the right place like most of us would. She's near Norwich

 

Yes, sorry to hijack the thread! I hope it's still relevant discussion.

4 figure service bill is not ideal on a car that's only worth a few grand. Apparently it also uses the oil pump wet belt so that'll need doing at the same time as the came belt


Yes, if going independent it will be very important to get someone that actually knows what they're doing, a specialist would be best. It would have to be local though as non car enthusiasts won't travel to have work done at the right place like most of us would. She's near Norwich

Lol, I'm always wandering off topic myself!😀

Yes, I think all the cases I've seen have had cambelt, oil pump and oil pump belt done, which is logical given the labour needed to get in there.

One of the issues for local garages is the cost of tools required, including torque multiplier, so unless they're going to be doing a lot it's not an economic proposition. Hence we're seeing engine specialists stepping in. I've not seen any mentioned around Norfolk area so unfortunately its a case of getting on your favourite search engine and seeing what crops up.

I suppose one way to look at it is many engines need a belt change at 4/5 years at £450 upwards a time, so over a 10 year ownership the total cost might be similar. It's just a big hit on an older car though, and needs to be weighed against a whole new engine, eg:

Brand New Ford Service 1.0 EcoBoost Engine - Fiesta Mk7.5 1.0 - Engines - 1.0 EcoBoost - Pumaspeed Milltek Ford Performance Tuning Milltek Sport Exhaust Ford Fiesta Focus ST RS Parts Specialist

Brand new F1FZ-6006-C direct from Ford we have these Ford 1.0 GTDi EcoBoost Service Engines in stock to suit all 1.0 EcoBoost applications includin...

pumaspeed.co.uk

 

I have to say I'm a bit lost on this thread - excuse my ignorance.

What is the nailed down status here for MK8 owners in terms of future maintenance for this? Whilst the dragon engine in these is Chain driven, the belt being referred to in this thread - when does it need replacing? I thought earlier in the thread it was 10yrs or 150k miles - have I missed anything?

Cheers 👍👍

 

I thought earlier in the thread it was 10yrs or 150k miles - have I missed anything?

The oil pump belt on the 1.5* is 10 years/150k afaik. We had a slight diversion a few posts back into the wet timing belt on the 1.0 ecoboost.**

*Other than the early (gear driven oil pump) ones as mentioned near the beginning of the thread.

**Which went to chain drive/oil pump belt mid-2020 apart from the 100ps version, it appears.

 

I was looking at Mk8 Fiesta ST's and the wet belt oil pump drive has put me right off.

What an utterly stupid piece of design just to save a couple of pounds in manufacturing costs and a few fractions of a MPG in fuel economy.

It will effectively make many 10 year old cars an economic write off when the time comes to change it. (Maybe that was the intention?)

 

Planned obsolescence you mean?

If they did then they clucked up massively by now having no hatchback offerings available at the point everyone's Fiesta falls over.

I suspect rather than 'write off' their cars, a lot of finger crossing will go on.

 

Yes unfortunately many cars now have lots of planned obsolescence designed in. They seem to be engineered to fail just after the warranty expires because it is cheaper to build them that way.

 

The future is a big unknown. Wonder how many people will be competent to do some of these jobs in 10 or more years from now, and will it be worth doing in terms of residual value of the cars anyway?

Last couple of years I've had a few days in Filey on the Yorkshire coast to coincide with the Trackrod Rally Yorkshire. My days of standing in the dark getting lashed by gravel in Dalby and Cropton forests are long past, but it's great to watch the start/finish particularly for the historic classes which are crammed with the likes of Mk 1 & 2 Escorts and have a potter round the service park.

Goodness knows how many times some of those crossflows, etc, will have been rebuilt in the last 40/50 years, but it's a whole different ball game with the complications of 21st century engines.

 

Just a quick update to my hijack question, we got the 2013 Focus 1.0 Ecoboost done by a specialist in Norfolk, former Ford mechanic gone rogue and now mobile

All genuine Ford parts was around £1,000 for cam belt, oil pump belt, water pump, oil and filter, aux belt and new coolant all done, and so far so good. Definitely shop around and look at independent specialists if you can 👍

 

The problem is there are several variants of the Dragon engine some with a BIO cambelt, some with camchain, some with a BIO driven oil pump and some with a pump driven off the balancer shaft.
The balancer shafts changed position too.

Maybe the best way is to visit your Ford main dealer and ask what your engine has inside?

 

Maybe the best way is to visit your Ford main dealer and ask what your engine has inside?

Lol, I think in many cases you get better information on forums like this, unless you are fortunate to get hold of the master tech. I've more than once been told in Ford dealerships that the Mk 8 ST is a 4 cylinder!

There are indeed many variations of the Dragon, both n/a and turbo, in different markets, but I think we've pretty much nailed the oil pump belt issue for the Mk 8 ST in this thread.

 

There has been an interesting post on a Facebook group. An engine failed due to an issue with the gear driven oil pump, which was a surprise to me. It was hard to make out but it looked like the gear itself had an elastomer insert which had failed

 

I read this post on Facebook and it was on an early car with the chain oil pump. Do you think the later engines with the belt oil pump cars have the same part or is it a totally different design?

 

New part -

Failed part -

 

Apologies for asking but can you provide more context for this? how many miles had that gear insert covered?
Was the correct oil used at all times? Was it taken on track?
Curious as I have a July 2018 ST2 which will have the gear driven oil pump by all accounts.

 

It looks like the oil pump drive gear, located on the crank behind the cam chain gear (I think it drives the balance shaft too)

 

But why oh why make it like that ?

 

No idea. But it would have been better if that was the design for the gear on the pump itself, which at least can be replaced without removing the cam chain, just the sump removal

 

Maybe having the belt driven oil pump is not so bad after all..........

and if they're going to have a gear driven pump, why not stick it on the outside secured by 3 bolts that you could get off in a couple of minutes, like they used to?😀

:

 

if they're going to have a gear driven pump, why not stick it on the outside secured by 3 bolts that you could get off in a couple of minutes, like they used to?😀

What a great idea! If only Ford had thought of that.
Oh, hang on...

 

I was considering a Mk8 ST as a more sensible but still fun (better handling) alternative to my current M140i, but this thread has put me off.

Our other car is a Mk7 Golf GTI, and that has had a few issues too. Maybe it is just that a lot of modern cars are just rubbish and have idiotic bits of design.

 

@symonh2000 . What will you buy instead?

 

I will hang onto the BMW I think and try to sort out the handling as best I can, or I might consider something like the Hyundai I30N performance.

 

A pity as I don't think that this design "issue" has ever been a problem for anyone, or has it?

 

Yeah, I've been wondering that too. Seems to me to be more of a theoretical issue than a widespread real world issue.

 

I have never heard of a oil pump belt failure in these "Dragon" engines.

People confuse these ecoboost with the 1.0 ecoboost which is famed for failure. And that's only down to poor servicing or incorrect oil. My own 2015 1.0 Courier van is now nearly 70k miles with a stage 2 map and it hasn't ecoboomed.

My mate works at a Ford dealer service centre that repairs car for 3 main dealers and said they replace more 2.3 ecoboost engines in the RS Focus than MK8 STs.

 

And of course as a default support to that anecdotal reliability confirmation... the Ecoboost engine couldn't possibly have been awarded 'engine of the year' all those umpty thrumpty consecutive times if it had inherent reliability issues.

For me this matter has always been filed in the draw marked 'my I'd be ****ed off if this happened to me but the chances are slim to vanishingly small'.

Certainly no reason to walk away from buying one... there are other reasons at play if this is used as an excuse.